Author Topic: Issues with variable throttle pace cars  (Read 6079 times)

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hazardpro

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Issues with variable throttle pace cars
« on: May 22, 2015, 12:15:21 AM »
Hi there.

Im new to RCS64 having recently moved over from the dark side (SSDC) having spent 8 days trying to get the pace cars working right....

So I have set up a variable pace car on RSC64 - got it running really sweat in test mode made tweaks to the graph etc etc - ALL GOOD

But then when I go to have a race with that pace car I get very sporadic unpredictable behaviour (just as I was with SSDC).

The car will start going round and then half way round it will full throttle into a corner and de-rail. Even though there is no full throttle at that point on the graph (or even near that point) and it was not having that problem when in test mode (testing the pace car).

Then I may try again and it will do several laps fine and then full throttle again into a corner. Its almost like it gets confused or loses connection and goes bonkers.

Im using a pretty powerful PC with windows 7 & 16GB ram so I don't think its that.

The cars I am using are all DPR cars (could that be it?)

Any ideas? I really want to be able to race with pace cars and RCS64 was my last hope :/

Doug



 

chris99

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Re: Issues with variable throttle pace cars
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2015, 09:40:12 AM »
Hi Doug,
Hmm, this can be due to several things, mostly independent of the RMS - chip, track, cable & PC, so try to exclude some of them:

- Are all the DPR chips newish? The older versions did have some power surge/ID loss problems.

- Does the surge happen with all your cars and always at the same point on the track? If so, the track connections may need some attention.

- Open the Task Manager in Windows and monitor the CPU usage - does it ever hit 100%? Another program may be running in the background.

- Reconnect the Scalextric APB tower and set all pace cars speeds to zero.

What's puzzling is it works ok in test mode.
- Did you save the profile before exiting?
- Have you selected the correct saved profile for each car ID in the pacer tab setup screen?

Like you, I spent many frustrating hours trying to get SSDC pace cars to work. RCS64 pacers work unbelievably well. Problems can arise if you try to change the speed graph too much as it throws out the timing sync after that point but this is logical and won't cause unexpected surges.

I've had 5 pace cars running for long periods in races without any de-slots or unpredictable behaviour and maintaining lap times pretty closely so long as the target speed parameters are correctly set.

Let me know if any of the above is unclear and I'll add some more detail and screen shots.

Chris

Edit: Here's an old beta test video with an RCS64 controlled pacer racing against a Scalextric Challenger car: https://youtu.be/J6UYmQp4giY
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 10:04:52 AM by chris99 »

hazardpro

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Re: Issues with variable throttle pace cars
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2015, 09:33:02 PM »
Hi Chris

Thanks for the reply.

Answers to your Qs:

I have now skipped using the existing car chips and purchased all new chips which I installed today.
different places (but of course always on a corner as thats when it derails
set cars to zero in APB - ok will check that tonight ;)
Yes pace car profile is being saved
correct ID for profile etc - yes


So I did made some headway today....

I ran some power leads to other parts of the track today just to get some better continuity in power (to be honest I dont think I noticed any difference but hey ho) - I also cave the track a clean (I think I will crimp and copper take the whole lot once I get everything else working)

I set up a fixed throttle pace car (eg set up not using my controller) and got it running round the track nicely in test mode (all be it a little bit slow to race against, but fine for testing) - this ran fine in test mode (did about 20 laps).

So I then set up a 10 lap GP race with myself and the pace car.... I started the race but removed my car and just let the pace car run on its own.... and it completed the 10 laps no problem, no derails and no speeding up etc.

Great me thinks... so I set up the race again this time with the intension or driving too. We start the race and the pace car speeds up and derails on the first corner. WTF?

Ok so I start the GP again, with both the pace car and myself, but this time I remove my car again... the pace car does several laps no issue. I then pick up my throttle (without my car on the track) and squeeze the trigger (full throttle) and low a behold the pace car speeds up and derails!

So it seems that as soon as I give an input on any other controller the pace car starts doing a wobbly.

Now I should point out that the other throttles are not controlling the pace car, eg no direct throttle increase based on my input.... but the pace car just increases slightly and derails.

Likewise my car on or off the track makes no difference to this effect. Eg it happens regartdless to whether my car is on or off the track - it purely seems to be based on any throttle input from another controller whilst the pace car is running.

Any ideas?  :'(

Doug

chris99

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Re: Issues with variable throttle pace cars
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2015, 10:53:49 AM »
I've never come across this type of interference. So you're saying the pace car always runs fine providing you don't touch a controller?
- Does it do the same thing with all your controllers?

- If you run against a pace car with the Scalextric tower connected, (ie without RCS64), do you still see the same type of increase in speed?

- I don't want to teach a Grandma to suck eggs, but just to check the basics I presume you have the driven car programmed to ID1 and the controller plugged into socket 1 and the pace car is programmed to ID2 and this is reflected in the RCS64 settings?

- Do you leave a controller plugged into the socket corresponding to the pace car ID, albeit not being used?

- Does the speed increase still happen if you run the driven car on another ID - ID3 for example?


Chris
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 11:09:14 AM by chris99 »

martin

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Re: Issues with variable throttle pace cars
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2015, 12:15:08 PM »
In the pace car tab there is a setting for power consumption.  How is it set?

hazardpro

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Re: Issues with variable throttle pace cars
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2015, 04:31:12 PM »
'general power loss consumption' currently set to 'medium'

I have now turned it off and will do some tests - can you explain what/how that works extactly please (would be good to have a better understanding for it).

Do you think that was effecting my variable speed pace cars too?

Thanks

Doug

martin

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Re: Issues with variable throttle pace cars
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2015, 04:44:59 PM »
If you gives full power to one car RCS64 increase the power to all the other cars, so you should not be able to feel power loss with a poor powersuply or a big track.

Normal disable this, if you have 2 PSU connected.

Martin

Howard

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Issues with variable throttle pace cars solution
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2016, 10:16:26 AM »
The car will start going round and then half way round it will full throttle into a corner and de-rail. Even though there is no full throttle at that point on the graph (or even near that point) and it was not having that problem when in test mode (testing the pace car).

Then I may try again and it will do several laps fine and then full throttle again into a corner. Its almost like it gets confused or loses connection and goes bonkers.

I realise this is an old post, but I found it when I was searching for a solution to the same problem I had. I eventually worked out what my issue was (just like Doug probably did) but I wanted to add a comment here in case others find this thread with the same problem.

I was recording my pace cars how I thought would be best: since I want them to be competitive, I would do recording after recording, seeking a really good lap time. Then, during a race against a variable speed pace car, sooner or later it would seem to go beserk and full throttle into a curve and de-slot.

The problem I had lasted for days until I worked it out: my efforts to get a good lap time were involving wheel-spin especially when I was gunning it down the straight. The pace car will always replay that throttle at that part of the track, which is fine if the wheels are spinning/losing traction in the same way. But after a few laps - as the tyres warm up I'm guessing - there is less wheel-spin. The tyres have no spin at all and instead deliver the full power of the recorded throttle, sure enough the pacer goes much faster and launches off a curve.

I got around this by trying to record smoother throttle inputs: don't suddenly crush the trigger when hitting the straight, squeeze smoothly. Same with braking - I tried to keep inputs smooth.

The result is no more pacer de-slots unless the tyres need a clean. With the right pace car I can easily lose a race to it, due to it being more consistent. Apply the auto-correct feature and it's great to watch the pacer lap times as it fine-tunes the throttle inputs.

Hope this is useful to other rcs64 new users. rcs64 is the only RCMS I've tried that has a good and working variable speed pace car feature.

martin

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Re: Issues with variable throttle pace cars
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2016, 10:35:13 AM »
Thank you for your kind words Howard.
I have spent several hours try to get these pace cars reliable.
I did found out that the cars really change performance within a few laps and with a longer race the change is huge. This is also is a variable what car you use.
I found out it was both the performance for the motor and the tire. they both change. so it was not possible for me to make all this Automatically.
So I had to make a lot off settings for the pace car, and put a lot off the adjustments to the user. But if you want to use pacecars and spent the time to learn it, you are able to make really reliable pacecars even for longer races.

I was surprised about this when I did start to implement this, it was 1000% more work than I was expected when started.
I know there is room for improvements, but the risk is high so I will leave it as it is. Also because I know a lot off users have some serious recorded pacecars, and change anything may result in new recordings.

I will say thank you to all the users who have shared there experience it really helps others.

Martin

Graham56

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Re: Issues with variable throttle pace cars
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2017, 09:23:41 PM »
I know its been awhile since anything added to this thread but as my issues are so similar to the above I thought it best to post here.
I've been trying to set up reliable pace cars for some time, I've tried both variable & fixed but then added sectors & adjusted the the power between sectors. They have run fine when testing but when I try them in practice or race they seem to go a lot faster & deslot at every corner. I've always thought I was patient but it's being stretched at the moment, but if I can't get them to work it would almost mean abandoning slot cars as I run pretty much on my own, a real Billy Nomates!!
Thanks for any suggestions.   

chris99

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Re: Issues with variable throttle pace cars
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2017, 09:35:57 PM »
Hi,
Check the target lap time is no too high if you are using that.
If I remember rightly, when you save a pacer profile, it overwrites the old target lap time with whatever lap time is showing in the box (based on your last test lap) and potentially uses that as a new target time which could make your car speed up if the lap time is unrealistic.
Also check the start speeds (can't remember what they are called but there are two of them) are not set too fast.

I'm sure it will be something simple. Stick with it as the pacers are awesome.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 09:37:44 PM by chris99 »

Minardi

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Re: Issues with variable throttle pace cars
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2017, 01:04:07 PM »
Also check the general power loss setting! Turn it off of you have good power around the track.

oxo cube

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Re: Issues with variable throttle pace cars
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2020, 10:52:22 AM »
sorry for being late to the party .... but
this is exactly the problem i have
i set the profile for pace car , it runs great when in test mode
i save profile , name it to each particular car
start GP or  any race mode and the pace car is significantly faster from the get go ,and deslots almost immediately
go back to profile setting , hit test button for the profile and the car laps like a dream 

i have read the above posts and do not see a definitive solution ?
or atleast any such fixes are not shared ?

have i missed something?